Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I’m Andrew Huberman, a professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. This podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford, but is part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public.

In keeping with that theme, I’d like to thank the sponsors of today’s podcast. Our first sponsor is InsideTracker, a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and help you reach your health goals.

I’ve long been a fan of getting blood work done, as most of the things you want to know about your health, such as hormones, metabolic factors, and blood sugar levels, can only be analyzed from blood. Nowadays, there are also excellent DNA tests that can give you valuable information about what’s going on at the cellular, molecular, and even neural circuit level within your brain and body.

InsideTracker makes getting blood and DNA tests easy. You can go to a testing site where they draw your blood, take your DNA sample, or they can come to your home if you prefer that. As well, their amazing dashboard lets you understand what your levels of various hormones and metabolic factors mean, and what you should do about them. This is what separates InsideTracker apart from other blood and DNA tests, as most tests only provide results with no directives about how to bring the numbers into the desired ranges. InsideTracker makes this simple and clear.

If you’d like to try InsideTracker, you can go to insidetracker.com/huberman and use the code Huberman at checkout to get 25% off any of InsideTrackers plans.

Today’s episode is brought to us by Athletic Greens, an all-in-one vitamin, mineral, and probiotic drink. I started taking Athletic Greens back in 2012 and have taken it ever since. It lets me cover all my nutritional bases in terms of vitamins, minerals, and probiotics. There is a lot of data now pointing to the fact that the gut microbiome and the gut-brain axis is important for metabolism and endocrine health. With Athletic Greens, I know I have all the foundational stuff handled. It also tastes really good on its own or can be mixed with water.

I mix Munk Pack Protein Oatmeal in with my Athletic Greens to add a little bit of extra protein and fiber. Mixing the two together is a great way to start the day. I add a little bit of lemon juice or lime juice to Athletic Greens because I like a little tartness flavor in there as well, but most people just mix it with water. It mixes up super easily and I drink it once or twice a day, usually once mid morning and once again in the afternoon.

If you’d like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to athleticgreens.com/huberman and if you do that, you can claim their special offer which is a year supply of vitamin D3K2. There is now a ton of evidence that vitamin D3 is involved in countless metabolic processes and hormonal processes that are important for overall health and wellbeing. Vitamin D3 can be obtained from the sun, but most people are deficient in it.

So if you go to athleticgreens.com/huberman, you’ll get the Athletic Greens, the year’s supply of vitamin D3 and K2, and the five free travel packs. Today’s episode is also brought to us by Munk Pack. I mix Munk Pack Protein Oatmeal in with my Athletic Greens to add a little bit of extra protein and fiber. Mixing the two together is a great way to start the day.

Munk Pack is a company that makes keto-friendly snacks that taste incredible but have just one gram of sugar or less. In fact, my production team here at the Huberman Lab Podcast teases me because I actually have to keep the boxes of Munk Pack bars in my basement, otherwise I’ll tear through all of them. I remember the first time I tasted it, I was not a big fan of bars in general, but I was pleasantly surprised when I tasted the Munk Pack bars – they are absolutely awesome! They come in a lot of different flavors, such as caramel sea salt, sea salt dark chocolate, and peanut butter dark chocolate. I’m partial to the caramel sea salt one, but they are all incredible – I’ve tried them all!

I keep a few boxes of Munk Pack bars in my basement. I’m not a follower of any particular diet, but I do eat in a way that helps me to stay alert and focused during the day, and to transition to sleep at night. I generally eat low carb keto-ish during the day, although I don’t necessarily stay in ketosis. In the afternoon, I often have a cup of coffee with a Munk Pack bar as a snack. They taste great and are a great snack before a workout or when I just need a snack and want to keep working.

Munk Pack bars are a great snack option because they don’t contain any of the unhealthy ingredients like soy, trans fat, sugar, alcohols, or artificial colors. To try Munk Pack bars, visit MunkPack.com and enter the code Huberman at checkout to get 20% off your purchase.

This month, we’re talking all about hormones and their role in controlling brain and body processes. Last episode, we discussed the role of estrogen and testosterone. Today, we’re going to look at how hormones impact feeding, hunger, and satiety. It’s important to note that hormones don’t work alone in this context. We’ll discuss some of the hormones that influence our desire to eat more or less or stop eating altogether.

The hypothalamus contains neurons that control hunger and satiety. It is located in the forebrain, at the base of the forebrain, and contains neurons that control sexual behavior, body temperature, circadian rhythms, the desire to sleep or be awake, and even rage. To regulate hunger, meal timing, and satiety, there are multiple entry points such as behaviors, supplements, and even brain-machine interface devices. Stimulating certain neurons in the hypothalamus can send someone into a rage, which shows the powerful control centers it contains for the brain and body.

The ventromedial hypothalamus is an area of the hypothalamus that has been of interest to researchers for a long time due to its relationship to hunger and feeding. It has been observed that lesions in this area can have paradoxical effects – sometimes causing hyperphagia (excessive eating) and other times causing anorexia (not wanting to eat). This suggests that the ventromedial hypothalamus is an important control station for hunger, feeding and satiety, but it does not explain what is happening at a deeper level. It is believed that there are multiple populations of neurons in this area, and further research is needed to understand their role.

There are two distinct camps when it comes to feeding: those who promote feeding and those who promote not feeding or not eating. The other neural component of this matter is related to the mouth. The insular cortex, located further up in the brain, processes a lot of information, particularly information about what is going on internally, known as interoception. This cortex has neurons that receive input from the touch receptors in the mouth, and it has powerful control over whether one enjoys, avoids, or wants more of what they are eating. This has to do with the sensation of eating. For some, such as myself, the mere act of chewing is enjoyable.

I like celery sticks enough. I’m not crazy about them, but they taste fine to me. I like chewing on celery sticks, but I actually just like chewing on them. I could eat all day long, except that it’s not healthy to do that. The mere act of chewing for me is very pleasurable, and this is also true for people who chew gum. If you choose something like celery or cucumber slices or chew gum, provided it doesn’t have any sugar or caloric content, it won’t drive increased hunger. However, if you eat something with sugar, it has a very specific action in the insular cortex and other areas of your nervous system that promotes the desire to eat more.

The key point to remember is that there are two brain areas involved in hunger and lack of hunger – the ventromedial hypothalamus and the insular cortex. The insular cortex gets input from the mouth and cares about chewing and the consistency of foods.

We often don’t think about the touch or tactile essence of food. For example, when I go to sushi, some people really like the urchin, while I don’t because of its consistency. This may be highly individual and learned, with some cultural background. Touch has a lot to do with whether or not someone wants to eat something. Now, let’s get back to the ventromedial hypothalamus. This part of the brain can make animals or people want to eat more or less, so what’s going on there?

There’s a classic experiment in which researchers took two rats and parabiosed them to each other. This meant that they linked their blood supply, but their brains, mouths, and everything else remained separate. The rats had to walk together and go to the same places in order to do it. When the researchers lesioned the ventromedial hypothalamus in one of the rats, the rat became very obese, while the other rat became very thin, despite consuming the same amount of food. This reveals that there is something in the blood that is being exchanged between the two animals, and that there are hormone or endocrine signals involved in hunger and appetite. We will next discuss what those endocrine signals are, and then look at entry points that can be used.

You can use these even if you’re not parabiosed to anything. This can allow you to time your meal frequency, predict when you’re going to be hungry or not, and drive up appetite. Believe it or not, there are people out there who are trying to eat more, although far many more people are trying to eat less due to the epidemic of diabetes, type II diabetes and obesity. Maintaining a healthy body weight and body weight composition is one of the best paths to longevity and to feeling good, as well as cognitive functioning which is linked to levels of adipose tissue.

Let’s talk about the endocrine factors that regulate feeding, hunger and satiety. In the last 20 years, the discovery of the arcuate nucleus as another brain area, not just the ventromedial hypothalamus, has been a really exciting thing to emerge in the science of feeding and appetite.

The arcuate nucleus has some fascinating sets of neurons that release incredible molecules and chemicals into the blood. These chemicals act as accelerators or brakes on feeding and appetite. It is possible to control these molecules through simple behaviors. Once you understand what these molecules are, you can start to understand why this is the case. You have control points to control your appetite, either increasing or decreasing it. The set of neurons in the arcuate nucleus that are responsible for this are called PMOC neurons, which stands for Proopiomelanocortin system. This acronym gives us a clue as to what the neurons may be responsible for, as melano refers to pigmentation in skin or hair cells, due to melanin.

Last episode, I talked a little bit about the relationship between light, dopamine, and melanin. You should already be thinking that melanin probably has something to do with that system, and indeed it does. The POMC neurons make something called Alpha MSH (Melanocyte-stimulating hormone). If you don’t want to remember any of the other acronyms and terms I’ve talked about so far, do try and remember MSH: Mouse, Sam, Hamster, MSH. MSH reduces appetite and is a powerful molecule, so just put that on the shelf.

There is another population of neurons in the arcuate nucleus called the AgRP neurons. It is related to the mouse strain it was first identified in, but humans have these cells as well.

The AgRP neurons stimulate eating. Whenever someone is approaching food, experiencing excitement or anxiety about it, even if they don’t have an eating disorder, they may experience a ramping up of autonomic activity due to the activity of these AgRP neurons. This activity goes up when people haven’t eaten for a while. On the other hand, the release of MSH goes up when someone has eaten. Other things can also stimulate the release of MSH. Experimental evidence shows that if AgRP neurons are killed, people and animals stop eating.

People with lesions of the melanocyte-stimulating hormone neurons just stop eating; they become anorexic. Anorexia is both a clinical term and a term used in the scientific literature to describe a pattern of behavior. If the AgRP neurons are stimulated, animals and people will eat to the point of bursting. This is the accelerator on eating, and it is related to the ventromedial hypothalamus. Melanocyte-stimulating hormone is an interesting hormone; it can shut down the desire to eat.

The Melanocyte-stimulating hormone (MSH) is released from the medial pituitary, a gland that is very closely positioned to the hypothalamus. In fact, some of the hypothalamus neurons project their neural connections directly into the pituitary, to release hormones such as gonadotropins and luteinizing hormones, which we discussed in reference to testosterone and estrogen. MSH stimulates the desire to not eat, and interestingly, it is activated by ultraviolet light to the eyes, not directly to the skin or pituitary.

This is yet another reason why getting ample light, ideally sunlight, but it could be other sources of UV light to the eyes, stimulates MSH and keeps the desire to eat or appetite in check in healthy ranges. This has been shown over and over again, and I am a big fan of this whole thing of getting morning light in order to synchronize circadian rhythms, and avoiding light in the middle of the night.

Animals and people tend to eat less in the spring and summer months. Hibernating animals, such as Ashley bears, don’t truly hibernate, but go into a kind of torpor. They don’t eat much because they are in burrows or dens or wrapped up in a ball. Humans, however, generally have a greater appetite in the cold winter months. This is not only due to the holidays and abundance of food, but because when we get ample sunlight to the eyes, it is converted into a signal for the MSH neurons. This signal binds its receptors and keeps the brake on appetite in check.

The takeaway tool from this is to make sure you’re getting enough light not just in the morning, but throughout the day. It has to be light to your eyes, but not to the point where it is damaging or painful. The best way to accomplish this is by not wearing sunglasses, provided you can do so safely. If you don’t have access to enough sunlight, then you can use artificial light. Blue blockers should be avoided during the day as they block the UV and shorter wavelength light that is needed to create alertness and release MSH from the medial pituitary. Some people even inject MSH or things similar to it.

I am not suggesting people do that. However, there are three main consequences of doing that. Firstly, it reduces appetite which is why it is being used as a dieting drug, although its legal status is unknown. Secondly, it makes them very tan due to the melanocyte-stimulating hormone. Lastly, it purportedly sends libido through the roof, to the point where it is distracting for other activities, although I have never tried it.

Melatonin is a hormone that can create priapism, a chronic erection in males that can be physically damaging to the genitalia. It can be regulated with healthy levels of sunlight and artificial UV light. Treatments for obesity involving ample sunlight or UV light should be discussed with a physician. Melatonin is not widely known, but subcultures are using it for two particular end points at super physiological levels. For this podcast, I reached out to a few people to ask about potential side effects.

Alpha-MSH inhibits hunger while ghrelin activates it. Alpha-MSH levels can be controlled through viewing ultraviolet light. This seems like a mechanistically logical way to keep appetite in check. Ghrelin is a hormone peptide released from the GI tract that increases the desire to eat through various mechanisms, including stimulating neurons in the brain that make you want to eat.

Ghrelin is an important hormone that creates food anticipatory signals within our nervous systems. This signal is reduced glucose levels in the blood. When glucose levels drop too low, ghrelin is secreted from the gut and activates neurons in the brain including the PMOC neurons and the other neurons of the wingin’ it. It also activates the VMH in particular ways. This hormonal clock makes us want to eat at particular times, and today we will be discussing ways to manage glucose and insulin levels so that they remain in a modest range.

It turns out that our bodies have a Pavlovian response to certain times of day. After the famous experiments of Pavlov’s dogs, it has been determined that the neural pathways for salivation are activated by hormones secreted from the gut. This creates a sensation and desire for certain foods at certain times of day. For example, if someone eats breakfast at around 8:00 AM and lunch at 12:30 PM, plus or minus 20 minutes, our bodies will respond to these times with a Pavlovian response.

Ghrelin is a hormone that is released from the stomach when we are hungry. It is able to override the low levels of glucose in our bloodstream, due to input from a clock in our liver that is linked to the clock in our hypothalamus in the brain. This means that if we eat at regular meal times, we will start to get hungry a few minutes before those meals times. This is why our stomachs start to growl at particular times of day. It is not just the gurgling of liquids in our stomach, as many people expect.

Ghrelin is a hormone secreted as a food anticipatory signal to motivate us to eat at regular times. Nowadays, there is a lot of interest in intermittent fasting and meal plans to maximize health and wellbeing. People have different reasons for wanting to control their eating habits. At the extremes, some people need to eat every two or three hours or else their blood sugar drops. Generally, blood sugar does not drop so low that they need to eat to alleviate a blood sugar issue, although this can happen.

Some people are truly hypoglycemic, low blood sugar. But most people, as the blood sugar starts to head down towards the low-ish ranges, ghrelin is secreted. This can be disruptive to those people not eating on the clock, as it activates neurons in the brain. For people who eat once a day or twice a day, or tend to shift their meals, and eat a lot during a limited feeding window, it is interesting to note that humans now eat and talk about foods in ways that used to be discussed in courses and research lectures about feeding animals.

We owe a great deal of gratitude to Satchin Panda, who was a colleague of mine at the Salk Institute and is one of the pioneers of this restricted feeding window work. He has an excellent book called ‘The Circadian Code’ that I highly recommend. He has done a lot of important work on neurons in the retina that control circadian timing, as well as the relationship between feeding windows and health. He is one of the major proponents of circadian eating, which means eating during the daytime, not at night or intermittent fasting, and restricting feeding windows to anywhere from four to six to eight hours.

I’ll use myself as an example of the transition from a regular feeding schedule to a more intermittent-ish fasting, although I don’t really fall into true intermittent fasting. I was one of those people that just got so accustomed to waking up and eating about an hour after I woke up.

I went from eating every three or four hours to eating twice a day, lunch and dinner, with maybe a couple of snacks in the afternoon. At first, this change was excruciating. I thought I couldn’t exercise unless I had eaten first. However, we now know that during most forms of exercise, unless you’re focused on optimal performance, you can exercise just fine without eating beforehand. This is because you’re mainly relying on sources like glycogen from the liver, undigested food, and body fat if the exercise is extremely long. When you suddenly skip a meal or change your meal timing, ghrelin is released in your system and stimulates the desire to eat by acting at the level of your brain. Ultimately, it is mental because it is all chemicals, both brain and body.

The stimulation of neurons that anticipate feeding is linked to the arcuate nucleus neurons, which are stimulated by ghrelin and make us want to eat. This has practical implications; if we want to shift our eating schedule to one where we are not eating as frequently, it can have advantages beyond just the biochemistry and health-related benefits. These include not having to think about or buy food all day, and having more social flexibility, such as being able to attend a meeting or dinner at a particular time. It might make it difficult to meet someone for breakfast, as one might be the “dork” who is just drinking black coffee and refusing food.

I’ve been that dork who has worked with their so-called willpower. Ghrelin secretion, which is related to the nervous system, can be shifted by about 45 minutes per day. This timing will vary depending on each individual’s willpower. If someone wants to shift the timing of their first meal, they should try to space it out by 45 minutes each day. This is possible because it is a form of neuroplasticity. For example, if someone usually has breakfast at 8am, they could try shifting it to noon by pushing it out by 45 minutes to an hour each day, or they could take the plunge and do it all at once.

My colleague has a great practice. He keeps his ghrelin system at random by skipping one meal per day and making his external schedule dictate when he skips breakfast, lunch, or dinner. This helps keep his ghrelin system off kilter and allows him to have a lot of neural flexibility and top-down control. He is aware that the hunger he feels is not necessarily hypoglycemia, but rather an activation of AgRP neurons. This allows him to push his meal schedule around however he wants. Top-down mechanisms are powerful.

Belief and motivation can shift neural circuits. We are going to discuss this in more detail later. For people who suffer from hypoglycemia, it is important to take control of their blood sugar levels and keep them stable. It is important to do what is medically safe. However, for most people with reasonable blood glucose levels, it can be interesting and fun to play with these parameters to optimize what they want to do. This may change across the year with schedules. Having flexibility over when to eat can bring great benefit. Regularity of eating leads to regularity of ghrelin secretion, which results in regular activity of AgRP neurons, meaning people will be hungry at regular intervals. This is supported by modern research on hormone and neural systems.

MSH inhibits feeding, making us want to eat less, while ghrelin makes us want to eat more. Another hormone, called Cholecystokinin (CCK), is potent in reducing our levels of hunger. I first learned about CCK when I was an undergraduate over 20 years ago, and there was a lot of excitement about its potential as a diet drug. Whenever a molecule or chemical is found in the brain or body that can suppress feeding, the diet industry is eager to see if it can help people move from being obese to losing unhealthy weight. A similar phenomenon was observed with leptin, a hormone made by body fat that signals to the brain when there is a lot of body fat. In animals, injections of leptin can make fat animals thin, but it did not have the same effect in humans. However, it was successful in treating a rare form of diabetes.

CCK has been looked at as an obesity drug, something to reduce obesity. However, it had some pretty unhappy side effects and actually caused some pretty serious side effects. Now, CCK when released at normal levels by your gut has a powerful effect in suppressing appetite for a period of time. And there are healthy and direct ways to activate CCK.

CCK is in the GI tract and is released from the GI tract. Its release is governed by two things: a subset of very specialized neurons that detect what’s in the gut, the specific contents of the gut, and certain elements of the mucus lining of the gut and the gut microbiome. Interestingly, CCK is stimulated by fatty acids, and particular fatty acids that we’ll talk about.

Amino acids, and particular amino acids, can trigger the release of CCK, which inhibits appetite and reduces feeding. We will talk a lot about sugar, because if CCK can be triggered by fatty acids, amino acids, or sugars, then it might seem that eating a lot of sugars should make us not want to eat more. However, we all know that eating sugar makes us want to eat far more. This has to do with a separate mechanism we will discuss today.

Which fatty acids in the gut stimulate the release of CCK? It turns out it is the omega-3 fatty acids, which come from algae, krill, or fish oil. Omega-3 fatty acids and Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) either from food or from supplements, stimulate the release of CCK which then reduces, or at least blunts, appetite.

I’m talking about regulating appetite to the point where animals and people don’t over-consume. So it’s keeping appetite at a healthy level. The other thing that stimulates CCK that I mentioned are amino acids. When we eat, we have the ability to break down different macronutrients, such as carbohydrates, fats or proteins, into sugars and glucose, that then we can convert to ATP. Amino acids both can be used as energy through a process called gluconeogenesis, of converting proteins into energy. Or those amino acids can be broken down and then rebuilt into things like preparing, repairing muscle tissue as well as other forms of cellular repair. They’re involved in all sorts of things related to protein synthesis.

Eating the proper levels of amino acids, omega-3’s, and conjugated linoleic acids (CLA’s) can help to keep our appetite in check and prevent overeating. Studies have shown that when we eat, we are essentially foraging for fat and amino acids. We will continue to eat until we have consumed enough omega-3’s, omega-6’s, CLA’s, and certain amino acids, even if it is not a conscious decision. This is due to the activation of cholecystokinin (CCK). Additionally, the volume of food in our gut can be large and cause us to feel very full and stop eating.

Physical reason: Our gut is informing the brain via CCK and other mechanisms when we’ve ingested enough of what we need. Omega-3’s, CLA’s, and certain amino acids are vital for sending out this signal.

Top-down control: We may also have top-down control, where we have knowledge that the meal has ended and we stop because we have to go back to work or a meeting, or we tell ourselves we’ve had enough.

Glutamine: Among the essential amino acids, there is one in particular that can trigger the release of CCK very potently, and that’s glutamine. It has been shown in a few studies to play a role in bolstering the immune system.

Glutamine can increase the number of killer cells in the immune system and is consumed in supplement form. People can take it in the form of a teaspoon of glutamine throughout the day or for whatever reason they think they’re battling off an infection. Glutamine can also be derived from foods such as cottage cheese. Once a threshold level of glutamine and other essential amino acids, Omega-3 fatty acids, and CLA’s are reached, CCK is released and helps reduce the activity of AgRP neurons that promote feeding. Feeding is an interplay between brain and body.

It’s not just one thing that’s putting the accelerator or the brake on the feeding process. We should all be trying to get our Omega-3 and Omega-6 ratios correct as they are antidepressant and healthy for the gut microbiome. Whether one decides to supplement with glutamine or not is up to them, however, it can reduce sugar cravings. I have a friend who is an absolute chocolate and sweets addict, and he has found that supplementing with glutamine has helped him to reduce his cravings. One should always check with their doctor, especially if they have any predisposition to cancer or have cancer, as many cancers and tumors like glutamine.

He is a grown adult who eats candy and chocolate as if he was a 14 year old kid. It is quite incredible and he has a sugar addiction, but he is aware of this and has managed to kick all other addictions. He finds this stimulating for his brain and body, but he hates it and finds it very frustrating. He cares a lot about his health and has taken the approach of taking a teaspoon or couple of teaspoons of glutamine several times throughout the day or anytime he craves sugar, which has reduced his cravings. Some people on the ketogenic front mix it with half and half to make it taste better, as it is a little bit chalky. Glutamine has some interesting properties.

Making sure you’re getting the right omega-3s, CLA’s, and glutamine is important for making sure that the CCK signal gets through. Glutamine, when taken as a supplement, can cause a small but real increase in blood glucose. Diabetics should be aware of this, as it can reduce sugar cravings. We did an episode on nutrition if you want to learn more about the different sources of omega-3s and CLA’s.

Gut health is essential for overall health and well-being, and the gut is trying to assess levels of omega-3 fatty acid, conjugated linoleic acid, glutamine, and other essential amino acids. We are essentially trying to eat to get these nutrients, and then a signal can be deployed up to the brain that we are no longer interested in eating more.

Whenever I am preparing an episode for this podcast, I am faced with a challenge of how many tools should I offer that involve doing something new – a new behavior, exercise, supplement, etc. – and how many should be related to not doing things, avoiding things. Although it may not be fun to talk about what we should avoid, some of these things are powerful in light of the mechanisms of a given topic, so I would be remiss if I did not mention them.

Now we understand how hormones and peptides like CCK and ghrelin impact appetite. There is one particular aspect of food that can powerfully impact CCK and most people are not aware of this. This has to do with highly processed foods.

Avoiding highly processed foods is important for a variety of reasons. One of the most interesting is the history of how whole foods transitioned to highly processed foods in this country. To learn more about this, I suggest watching the YouTube video by Dr. Robert Lustig at the University of California, San Francisco. It was hosted by Stanford and explains the food industry’s addition of sugars and salts and how it has turned food into a commodity. It has millions of views and is not a conspiracy theory, but rather scientific facts.

Another reason to avoid highly processed foods is due to emulsifiers. Many of us are familiar with them, even though we may not realize it.

When you put detergent in the laundry that contains emulsifiers, the goal is to bring together fatty molecules with water molecules and be able to dissociate them and break them up to get the stains out of clothes. Emulsifiers are also put into processed foods to allow certain chemical reactions to occur that extend the shelf life of those foods, such as candy bars, cereals, pastries, chips, and even some meats. These emulsifiers have names like soy lecithin and other things.

Why are emulsifiers bad? There are a lot of reasons, but the main one is that when ingested, they strip away the mucosal lining of the gut and cause the neurons that innervate the gut to retract deeper into the gut.

Eating highly processed foods can lead to overeating due to the lack of hunger-shutdown signals, such as CCK, being triggered. This is because these foods are harder to measure in terms of the amounts of amino acids, sugars, and fatty acids they contain. This can also cause structural damage to the mucosal lining of the gut, but this can be repaired by avoiding highly processed foods for some time. Emulsifiers from these foods can also limit the gut’s ability to detect what is in the food and, therefore, deploy the satiety signals. Furthermore, there are neurons in the gut that sense sugar and send a subconscious signal to the brain via the vagus nerve, which triggers the release of dopamine and makes one crave more of the food.

Parallel signals in highly processed foods can lead to overeating and disruption of the nervous system. Eating whole foods instead has tremendous value as recently demonstrated by a paper in the Cell Press journal. This paper showed that people who consume highly processed foods tend to overeat other types of food in general. There are many other reasons to avoid highly processed food. Therefore, it is important to arm yourself with tools to make healthier food choices.

I think this visual of certain foods
and these emulsifiers actually stripping away some of the critical lining of your gut and disrupting the hormone signaling to the brain controlling feeding, is important enough and cryptic enough, meaning it hasn’t been talked about, it works at a subconscious level, and that it’s important that people are aware of it so they can make decisions about what they do want to eat or not want to eat for themselves.

There was an absolutely beautiful study done by my colleague, Chris Gardner at Stanford, exploring whether or not certain diets were better than others. They looked at vegan, vegetarian, omnivore, I don’t know if they looked at all meat or not, but they looked at the different forms of diets, intermittent fasting, et cetera. And they essentially found that, whichever diet people adhered to, whichever one they followed, was equivalent to the others. Provided that they followed it, they lost the equivalent amount of weight. There really wasn’t a strong effect of the food type or the pattern of eating, et cetera. However, in a study like that, adherence is very high because people are a part of a study. And for many people, the ability to adhere to a certain eating plan is one of the most, if not the most powerful determinants of whether or not a given diet meaning nutritional plan works.

This thing about highly processed foods however, is really diabolical. People need to be aware of it so they can make informed decisions about what they do want to eat or not want to eat for themselves. Adherence to a certain eating plan is one of the most powerful determinants of whether or not a given diet works.

A calorie is not a calorie – this is proven by recent data in cell metabolism and other journals. Highly processed foods contain emulsifiers which lead to this conclusion. This was further backed up by a study which took in-patient adults and put them on either ultra processed or unprocessed diets for 14 days. Everything else was matched, and the major variable was just processed or non-processed food. The results showed that those eating the processed food diet ate much more, even after all other variables were clamped.

Studies have shown that when people consume highly processed foods, their body weight changes significantly more than when they consume less processed foods. This cannot be explained by increased calorie intake alone. Therefore, it is clear that these highly processed foods are bad for your health. They increase weight gain, disrupt the lining of the gut which affects hormones and satiety signals, and contain a variety of substances, particularly sugars, that disrupt hormonal and neural systems which control the desire to eat. These processed foods can explain a lot of the health issues that have been seen in the last 50 years, such as the increase in diabetes and juvenile diabetes. It is almost a smoking gun as to what the cause of this is.

Lustig’s lecture explains why non-processed foods are far more economical at the level of the household or individual, as well as at the societal level. I highly recommend you check it out.

Now, let’s move on to hormones that regulate hunger and satiety, in particular insulin. You’ve probably heard of insulin before. It is the thing that’s lacking in type I diabetics, that’s why they have to inject insulin whenever they eat. When food is broken down into glucose, insulin is necessary to shuttle glucose to the appropriate tissues in the body and to keep glucose levels in check. The glucose is then oxidized into fuels and eventually made into ATP for energy.

You break down food into glucose. Now, if you’re ketogenic, we’ll talk about that in a little bit. In general, you eat, food is turned into glucose. Your blood sugar needs to be kept in a particular range. Hypoglycemic means too low, hyperglycemic means too high. This healthy range, referred to as euglycemic, is about 70 to a hundred nanograms per deciliter. However, most people are not walking around with a glucose monitor.

Glucose levels need to be kept at a particular level to avoid damage to neurons, which can lead to neuropathies and even blindness. High levels of glucose can be managed with insulin, however, some people are insulin insensitive and need to take other measures to keep their glucose levels in check.

Type I diabetes is often picked up due to sudden weight loss, as the body is unable to process blood sugar in the same way as before. Type II diabetes is often, although not always, associated with being overweight and obesity. Both conditions are challenging, but Type II diabetes can usually be managed by managing one’s weight, as well as taking prescription drugs and supplements. For those who don’t have diabetes, it is important to manage glucose levels in the euglycemic range. This can be done through behavioral changes, diet modifications, and supplements or prescription drugs.

Eating carbohydrates, fats, and proteins all have different effects on blood glucose. When carbohydrates are eaten, blood glucose goes up. Eating fats causes a far less significant increase in blood glucose, while proteins can be broken down for fuel or used for protein synthesis and repair of other tissues. Insulin helps to keep this glucose in range while glucagon, which is secreted when we are hungry, pulls stores of energy out of the liver and muscles. Eventually, if all glycogen stores are depleted, body fat will be used for fuel.

This all means that the biochemistry and cell processes involved in anabolic and catabolic states are complex. However, when discussing feeding it can be simplified. For example, if you were to eat a meal consisting of rice, salmon, and a fibrous vegetable, you would experience an increase in insulin and blood glucose that is moderately fast.

What’s remarkable is that the order in which you consume each macro-nutrient has a profound influence on the rate of insulin and glucose secretion into the blood and how quickly those levels rise. To make it simple, if you were to eat rice first, your glucose would rise in a sharp spike, especially if it doesn’t contain any fats to slow the absorption. This is why you are often served bread or chips before meals or appetizers, as they are designed to get your blood glucose going up high. Big steep increases in blood glucose tend to promote the desire to consume more glucose, which also relates to the dopamine system and the way that something tasty in the mouth, sugar in the gut, and fats and sugars in the mouth, trigger the activation of a lot of systems in the brain and body to consume more of whatever is available to you. So, the basic idea is that eating carbohydrates and/or fats early in a meal will give a steep rise in blood glucose. However, if you were to eat the fibrous thing first, with a lot of chewing, but not a big rise in blood glucose, unless it’s laden with sugar.

We were talking about a fibrous vegetable that can blunt the release of glucose until you eat the fish and the rice. This means that if you feel a lot of food-related anxiety, or sense your blood sugar increasing quickly, it could be due to how well you manage your blood sugar, as well as psychological factors such as family and historical reasons. For example, if someone has a lot of siblings and feels the need to take all the food at the table, it is hard for them to understand that there is plenty to go around. To address this, psychological approaches to food are used to help people relax when they eat.

The effects of blood sugar on the body are real and based on basic biochemistry. This means that if you are very hungry and want a steep increase in glucose, you should eat a combination of carbohydrates, proteins, and vegetables (like a hamburger or sandwich). Alternatively, if you want to have a more modest increase in glucose or blunt the increase, have some fibrous food first, then protein, and then carbohydrates. This will result in a more steady rise in blood glucose and earlier satiety. Finally, Americans tend to give themselves permission to eat enormous meals more often than the traditional Thanksgiving meal.

There is an effect of being full and yet feeling hungry for more. This is because when blood glucose levels rise sharply, it triggers a number of other mechanisms. Alcohol consumption is often a factor as it is a sugar and can increase blood glucose levels quickly. It is important to avoid steep increases in blood glucose and the order of food eaten has a large impact on this. Additionally, movement before or after eating can help modulate blood glucose levels. This is due to the release of something called GLUT4 or GLUT4, which has an effect on dampening glucose levels.

Glucose shuttling is an important part of regulating blood sugar. It involves sequestering glucose from the blood and shuttling it to muscle and glycogen stores and away from body fat stores. If you struggle with blood sugar regulation, in addition to getting your body weight in a healthy range and doing all the other things you should be doing, getting some movement is key. Very few people can actually eat and walk at the same time, but taking a 30 minute walk after a meal can help to blunt blood glucose in beneficial ways. Additionally, exercising in the hours before a meal and the order in which you consume foods can be beneficial.

There are a few things that you can consume that can help adjust blood glucose levels. These include the order in which you eat certain macro-nutrients (carbs, proteins, fats and fibrous vegetables), as well as the intensity of physical activity you engage in. Even just a calm walk after a meal can help regulate blood sugar levels. It’s important to be aware of hidden sugars in processed foods as these can amplify the amount of glucose entering the bloodstream, leading to increased hunger.

The food that you ate is actually increasing your appetite as you eat it, creating a positive feedback loop. Therefore, it is important to be aware of the effects that these foods can have on your bloodstream and brain. Additionally, there is a difference between people with stable blood sugar, who can go long periods without eating and feel fine, and those with unstable blood sugar, who become shaky, jittery, and/or sweaty when they do eat and may even experience blurred vision. This can be caused by hyperglycemia.

Hyperglycemia can cause a variety of damaging effects to neurons, leading to issues like peripheral neuropathies. These effects take some time to occur, but can be impacted by exercise. Zone two cardio, which is a steady state exercise where you can nasal breathe and have a conversation, can create positive effects on blood sugar regulation. This type of exercise should last anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour or more for endurance athletes. This can help people manage their blood glucose and insulin sensitivity, allowing them to enjoy high sugar content foods without disrupting their body. Additionally, there are weight-related issues and adipose fat gain associated with this type of exercise, but this varies from person to person.

Doing zone two cardio for 30 to 60 minutes, three to four times a week makes your blood sugar stable, which is beneficial for various reasons. On the other hand, high intensity interval training or resistance training (also known as weight training) is effective in stimulating molecules that promote repackaging of glycogen. This includes sprints, heavy weight lifting, and circuit type weightlifting, provided that there is some degree of resistance. These types of workouts will lead to increases in the enzymes and metabolic pathways that repack glycogen and shuttle glucose back into muscle tissue, restocking the liver, etc. Moreover, these types of workouts can cause long standing increases in basal metabolic rate, not just due to increases in muscle, but also due to the fact that muscle burns more energy than other types of tissues, except the brain.

High-intensity training, such as sprints, high intensity interval training, weight training, etc., increases thermogenesis even after the exercise is completed. This is beneficial, but it is not an either/or situation. High intensity interval training and resistance training are good for one reason, while zone two cardio is good for other reasons. Therefore, it is healthy to do exercise most days of the week, if not every day, to manage blood glucose and metabolic factors that control repackaging of glycogen and discourage excess glucose from being stored in body fat stores.

Lipids are very important and managing the LDL and HDL ratios is essential for good health. LDLs (Low Density Lipoproteins) should be kept low, while HDLs (High Density Lipoproteins) should be kept high. While this topic is deserving of its own episode (or even several episodes), Castillo loves all forms of cholesterol – but that’s just him dreaming!

HDLs are the lipoproteins that are responsible for transporting fats, cholesterol, and other lipids throughout your body. They are the ones that remove excess cholesterol from the blood vessels and transport it back to the liver so that it can be recycled
or disposed of.

HDLs, the high density lipoproteins, are the so-called healthy lipoproteins and their role is to transport fats, cholesterol, and other lipids throughout your body. They remove excess cholesterol from the blood vessels and transport it back to the liver so that it can be recycled or disposed of. This is important to maintain healthy levels of HDL and not too much LDL, as fats don’t like water and all tissues in the body need fats and cholesterol, which is a precursor to sex steroid hormones.

HDL and LDL coat fats to allow them to be transported through the bloodstream and do a number of other things. HDL is a key component of the delivery system that brings those fats to the liver, ovaries, testes, and adrenals. Having adequate levels of HDL is good, because it allows fats to be delivered to the tissues that manufactured testosterone, estrogen, and cortisol in healthy levels. When LDLs are too high, fats are not getting to the correct tissues, and conditions such as fatty liver disease can occur. High sugar content can also lead to fatty liver conditions, which is a phenomenon that is only recently being seen in human history. To prevent these conditions, it is important to keep LDL and HDL ratios proper.

HDLs are responsible for delivering fatty molecules to the tissues that use cholesterol in order to manufacture hormones. To keep LDLs and HDLs in the proper ratios, the debate about dietary cholesterol and its relationship to LDL and HDL ratios is still ongoing. However, it is clear that having highly elevated glucose and consuming too much sugar can negatively impact LDL, HDL ratios. Managing glucose goes beyond managing blood sugar and making sure metabolism stays high. It also involves making sure enough HDL molecules are created and not too many of the molecules LDL, which disrupt the delivery of hormones to the organs. In conclusion, managing glucose is essential for creating healthy levels of hormones.

Healthy levels of HDL, or high-density lipoproteins, and low levels of LDL, or low-density lipoproteins, are important for proper hormone production and function. Fats and cholesterol molecules are necessary for the production of estrogen and testosterone, and for proper adrenal and liver function. In addition to behavioral tools, there are also supplements and prescription drugs that regulate the hormone systems, controlling feeding and satiety. Two of these that have been getting a lot of attention recently are Metformin, a prescription drug developed as a treatment for diabetes, and which works potently to reduce blood glucose, and another supplement.

Metformin is a powerful drug that has dramatic effects in lowering blood glucose. It involves changes to mitochondrial action in the liver, mainly through the AMPK pathway. This increases insulin sensitivity overall. I am surprised that so many people have sought it out, even those who are not diabetic, as it can also lower blood glucose. However, it has the potential to make people hypoglycemic, so it should be approached with caution.

I get a little concern when I hear about people blasting Metformin, simply because fasted states or low blood sugar states are healthy. Doing that pharmacologically can have long standing effects, so you really want to approach that with caution. Now, there’s a comparable drug (which really should be called a drug) that’s non-prescription and in fairly prominent use out there called berberine. Berberine is a really interesting compound and its actions very much mimic Metformin. Berberine actually comes from various plants and tree bark and is sold in supplement stores and online.

Berberine is an unregulated, powerful substance that should be approached with caution. It activates the AMPK (Adenosine Monophosphate-activated protein kinase) pathway and inhibits the protein tyrosine phosphates 1B pathway. These pathways are associated with fasting and low blood glucose. The effects of berberine are similar, if not identical, to Metformin. There are many studies that review its major effects. It is important to talk to a doctor before experimenting with berberine.

Check out examine.com for more information.

Berberine has very strong effects in lowering blood glucose. According to examine.com, it is one of the more, if not the most, effective supplements for this purpose. There are four studies on this, and they provide information on dosages. Examine.com is a wonderful resource where you can put in any supplement or compound, or biological goal, and it will list out the various effects in the human effect matrix, with studies on humans if they are available. It will tell you whether or not they are strong, weak, or modest effects, and point to the specific subject population. So be sure to check out examine.com for more information.

Berberine did not work for me.

I tried berberine and found that the typical dosages on the bottle of most supplements was much higher than I needed. When I took berberine, I got a splitting headache and became very hypoglycemic. In order to get my blood sugar back up, I ate 10 donuts and was very thirsty. I was also hyperphagic for sugar and craving it. I don’t want to promote any bad behavior, but I know certain people use berberine when they’ve overeaten sugars or on cheat days, which I’m personally not a fan of. Ultimately, berberine did not work for me.

People who want to keep their blood sugar in check often take berberine to keep their glucose levels clamped. Berberine has strong effects, as evidenced by three peer-reviewed studies on HbA1c levels. HbA1c is a measurement of blood sugar levels over the previous two or three months, though sometimes it can be a shorter period. Berberine has been found to drastically decrease blood sugar levels, as well as lower cholesterol.

Berberine acts on the liver, which is involved in cholesterol metabolism. It is known to affect both blood glucose and dietary fats. The effects of berberine on blood total cholesterol, HDL, and LDL are still heavily debated. Studies have shown that berberine can lower total cholesterol and HDL and LDL in parallel. Additionally, one study showed a minor increase in HDL and a decrease in LDL, though the effects seem to be minor. Berberine is also known to decrease insulin levels. An interesting fact about berberine is that it can quickly eliminate canker sores when it comes in direct contact with them.

I’ve not had canker sores in a few years, but when I dig down, they’re extremely painful. I don’t like those, so that’s kind of interesting. There are some study references available and I find it amazing that these compounds exist. For example, there is the prescription drug Metformin and the natural compound berberine, which is derived from tree bark. These compounds have effects that are essentially equivalent to one another. I’m not promoting their use or even their exploration, but those compounds do exist and can be researched on examine.com. Before taking any of these compounds, it is important to do your research and understand the different dosages and dose requirements. If you have hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia, be especially careful. Approach things carefully if you decide to go down this path.

Always start with the lowest amount that you could get away with. For me, the headache thing just made it a no-go. I do keep a bottle of it in a full disclosure, in the odd chance that I feel like eating a ton of doughnuts. It’s not so much about not ingesting the calories, it’s just that I don’t like the feeling of being hyperglycemic, the blurry vision, just feeling lousy. I do love donuts.

Other things that impact blood glucose in supplement form include chromium, which has been shown in 29 studies to have a minor effect on reducing blood glucose. L-carnitine, Panax ginseng, and other supplements can have effects of reducing blood glucose slightly. I don’t want to give a valence to or judgment to whether or not it’s positive or negative.

Caffeine has been reliably shown to increase blood glucose just a little bit. Contrary to popular belief, it does not drop blood glucose. Magnesium, on the other hand, has been found to have a modest reduction in blood glucose. In a previous episode, we discussed artificial sweeteners such as sucralose, aspartame, and NutraSweet and how they can have negative effects on the gut microbiome, which is supported by a number of studies.

Stevia is one artificial sweetener that seems to lower blood glucose just slightly. However, there is still no data on whether or not it impacts the gut microbiome. Many of the things I consume have small amounts of Stevia in them, so I would like to know if there is quality peer-reviewed research on the effects of Stevia on the gut microbiome compared to other artificial sweeteners. If anyone knows of such research, please let me know and provide references. It would be best to put it in the comment section on YouTube.

Stevia may be an attractive artificial sweetener due to its ability to lower blood glucose, but it is important to remember that sweet taste itself stimulates the desire to eat, thus increasing blood glucose.

Vitamin B3, along with other B vitamins, can stimulate appetite by triggering increases in blood glucose. It is unknown if B6 has the same effect. Zinc, on the other hand, appears to lower blood glucose. Apple cider vinegar, lemon juice, lime juice, and other acidic substances have also been found to lower blood glucose slightly. This has led to a movement of people striving to become more alkaline in their diets.

I hate to break it to you, but you don’t really want your body to be too alkaline. You want to stay in the right pH or else you’re start experiencing problems. There are conditions that make you more alkaline, but you don’t want to be too acidic or too alkaline.

If you see a beverage or something that purports that ingesting that beverage is going to make you more alkaline, that is absolutely false. There’s no evidence for that, and it’s impossible biochemically. It’s just marketing. Nonetheless, ingesting foods that are acidic can make some slight adjustments to the pH of the gut in ways that can slow or alter the absorption of foods and can blunt blood glucose.

You can try this sometime if you want, if ever you’re feeling kind of over sugared out like you ate something with too much sugar. You can drink a small amount of lemon juice mixed with water or lime juice, and you’ll notice that it will blunt that kind of hyperglycemic effect just a little bit.

Using berberine and Metformin as the most powerful tools for reducing blood glucose, there are a number of other options as well. Capsaicin and hot chili peppers can also lower blood glucose, though they have more minor effects.

The ketogenic diet has been studied in 22 studies and has been shown to have a notable decrease on blood glucose. This is not surprising as the essence of the ketogenic diet is consuming very little or zero of the foods that promote big spikes in insulin and glucose. Protein can be converted into glucose through gluconeogenesis, but the ketogenic diet still has strong support for its role in regulating blood sugar.

The specific effects of the ketogenic diet have been studied, with particular attention to its ability to adjust thyroid hormone levels. If someone has been in ketosis for too long and then returns to eating carbohydrates, they may not manage carbohydrates as well, which has been shown in the medical literature. We will dive deep into ketosis in a future episode. I have nothing against any particular nutrition plan; I know what works for me at this stage in my life and will update it if necessary. It is important to understand blood sugar and how it is managed, as well as the actionable protocols that can be used to manage it better depending on individual needs. The medical literature has shown us how far we have come in understanding these mechanisms.

Diabetes was known about as early as 1500 BC. Physicians at the time understood that certain people had high blood glucose without actually knowing what it was. They would take the urine of particular patients and find that ants preferred to move toward and consume the urine of certain patients. This was correlated with weight loss and other unfortunate health symptoms. It was understood that there was something in the blood and urine, but it was not until later that it was discovered that urine was actually filtered blood.

Parents need to be aware that if their child has blood in their urine, it can be a sign of a problem. Urine is a filtered form of blood, and as late as 1674, physicians at Oxford University were able to detect pathologically high levels of blood glucose by analyzing and tasting the urine of their patients. This practice is no longer used in medical science, and parents should be aware of this fact.

We can reflect on how far we’ve come in terms of the medical profession and its ability to measure things from the blood and urine without having to ask ants which urine is sweeter. This progress as a species is something to be celebrated. Before we close out today, I want to talk about one more tool that many of you will probably find useful. I’m a big consumer of caffeine, although I don’t consume a ton of it, I consume it very consistently. I generally do this early in the day, but delay about two hours after I wake up to maintain that nice arc of alertness and focus. I do drink black coffee and mushroom coffee, but Mate (also called Yerba Mate) is an interesting compound because unlike coffee, it has been shown to increase something called glucagon like peptide GLP1.

We discussed how ingesting Mate can increase leptin levels. Glucagon, which is elevated in the fasting state, is the opposite of insulin in rough terms. GLP1, or glucagon-like peptide one, is increased by ingesting Mate and acts as an appetite suppressant. I’m not trying to suppress my appetite, but it works well to stimulate the brain and give a level of alertness and do many of the things that coffee does. In addition, Mate contains electrolytes which are necessary for neurons and the brain to run on electrical activity, chemical transmission, and adequate levels of sodium, potassium, and magnesium.

Learning the biology and physiology of the action potential, the firing of a neuron, is something taught to every first year neuroscience student. Electrolytes are critically important for the function of the nervous system and diuretics, such as caffeine, can take electrolytes out of the body. This can lead to lightheadedness or brain fog, not just because electrolytes are low, but because they are out of balance. I find Mate to be helpful in extending the early morning fasting window to noon or so when I eat my first meal. It also has electrolytes, caffeine, and stimulates the release of GLP1. It tastes good too, but I don’t drink it out of a gourd, like some of my Argentine lineage do, instead I drink it out of a mug.

There is no promotion of Yerba Mate plantations or companies here; I simply enjoy the beverage. Research has found that drinking Mate increases the release of glucagon-like peptide one (GLP1), which can help regulate blood sugar levels. In South America, it is common for people to carry a thermos of Mate with them and bring it to meals in restaurants. I prefer to brew my own Mate as it is the most economical way to do it, though it can be a bit bitter for some people.

The real key to making Mate is to not use water that is boiling hot. Instead, go just shy of boil and it will not have the same acidic flavor. It will be a little bit sweeter, although not quite sweet. Yerba Mate GLP1 can help manage leptin, glucose, and glucagon levels in healthy ways.

We covered a lot of material in this episode, focusing on how hormones regulate feeding, hunger, and satiety. However, we did not talk about thyroid hormone, an extremely important hormone and pathway in the body and brain. We will do an episode related to thyroid and tools to regulate thyroid, I promise. Having seen this episode, you will be able to digest that material with far more ease.

We also didn’t talk about the fact that testosterone and estrogen can impact blood glucose in ways that are opposite to one another. When estrogen levels are high, appetite tends to be reduced. Conversely, when testosterone levels are high, appetite tends to increase. There are many interesting interplays between the various hormones, but that is too much of a deep dive for now. Today, we focused mainly on hormones such as ghrelin, Melanocyte simulating hormone, and Cholecystokinin, which can all suppress appetite. We also discussed food emulsifiers and the fact that when you are eating, you are seeking out particular amino acids and fatty acids, such as conjugated linoleic acids and Omega-3’s.

I have tried to give you a number of actionable tools, many of them behavioral, and some of them based on supplements or even prescription drugs. It is always best to do what is best for your health in conjunction with a healthcare professional. I am not a physician and cannot prescribe anything, but I am a professor who professes a lot of things and I try to share with you the best high quality, peer reviewed literature. I really appreciate your time and intention. Additionally, many of you have asked how you can help support the podcast.

There are several ways to support the YouTube channel. The first is to like a video that you’ve seen and please subscribe to the YouTube channel. That’s perhaps the most important thing. As well, leave us a comment in the comment section. That helps us and please ask questions. Those questions and your comments do inform content of future episodes. We read them all – except the negative ones (I’m just kidding, we read them all!). We really appreciate the question.

Please subscribe on Apple and/or Spotify, or both if you like. On Apple, you have the opportunity to leave us up to a five star review if you feel we deserve that. Apple also lets you leave a comment, some feedback for us as well.

Please do check out our sponsors that we mentioned at the beginning of the podcast. That’s the best way perhaps to support the podcast. As well, we have a Patreon account at patreon.com/andrewhuberman. There you can support the podcast at any level you like.

Today, as well as in previous episodes, I’ve mentioned various supplements. If you’re interested in seeing what supplements I take and you want to explore for some other supplements as well, you can go to Thorne T-H-O-R-N-E.com/u/huberman.

Thorne is a supplement company that we believe has the highest stringency in terms of what they put in the various supplements they make, and the amounts they put are very accurate. They have partnered with the Mayo Clinic, major sports teams, and us because we believe in their levels of stringency and accuracy. By visiting thorne.com/u/huberman, you can see what I take and get 20% off any of those supplements or any other supplements Thorne makes. Additionally, you can learn more about supplements and the ones I take with the 20% discount. Lastly, thank you for being with us and I hope you learned a lot.

I hope you explore some of the tools and information that you learned today about mechanistic science. If you know anyone that’s interested in this topic or think that someone could benefit from it, please suggest the podcast to them. Most of all, thank you for your interest in science. [upbeat music]